scottobear: (calm)
[personal profile] scottobear
Had an interesting difference of opinion. first, a breakdown for those folks that have never read the story.

The Velveteen Rabbit

One Christmas day a young boy was given a brown and white spotted velveteen rabbit with pink sateen ears. The rabbit was forgotten for awhile, but when the boy rediscovered him, the rabbit and boy became inseparable. Fancier toys teased the Velveteen Rabbit because he was only made of velveteen and stuffed with old sawdust. However, his friend, the wise Skin Horse, told him about Nursery Magic that would make him real if he was loved by a child and gave love in return.
As time went on the Velveteen Rabbit’s beautiful fur became shabby, his tail began to come apart and all the pink came off his nose where the boy kissed him. One day the boy told his Nana that the rabbit was real. The rabbit was so happy to be real that he never noticed his appearance and his eyes shown with a look of wisdom and beauty. He told some wild rabbits that he was real, but they teased him and made him sad.

Then the boy became ill and the rabbit stayed by his side. When the boy was well, the doctor ordered that all the toys be burned because of germs. The rabbit was sad and a tear trickled down his nose to the ground. Where the tear fell, a flower grew. The blossom opened and out stepped the lovely Fairy of Nursery Magic, who takes all the old, loved and worn out playthings that children no longer need and makes them real. The rabbit had only been real to the boy. The fairy took him in her arms and flew him to a place in the woods where there were other rabbits. She kissed him and told him to run and play. The Velveteen Rabbit became a real, live rabbit.

Ok... that's the gist of the tale, less many the beautiful words and images that it contains. I reccomend it as part of a childs bookshelf, and it has a special meaning to me.

Another LJer I was talking to elsewhere said "I can't believe that we subject children to depressing stories like that. "

I personally think it's a wonderful tale about love and the growing that comes from being loved. (see the sonnet, previous, too.) There are some sad parts, like when the boy is separated from something he loves so much, but overall, it's a marvellous tale, and memory from my childhood.

Somehow the person I was conversing with it about totally missed the point... I feel that children benefit more if shown in a soft way some of the way life works ahead of time, they adjust better than if they get fed the mostly pointless "Barney the dinosaur, no drama ever happens" school of storytelling. It's a question of taste, and position, I guess. In any event, I'm not going to bother pointing my world view at him anymore as he's too traumatized by the story to hear it.

His sort of thinking has been a mild irritant to me... his opinion in general doesn't matter, but when it becomes that of the majority, and will affect how I ultimately raise a child... then I begin to be disturbed by it. I credit some of my common sense and ability to reason to being subjected to a good mix of reality as a kid, not just the "everything is rainbows and cherubs" idea that's currently in vogue. You don't have to tell the story of "How Little Billy lost his legs to an Axe Murderer" either.

A balance can be struck. Fairies can be about granting wishes, playing tricks or warning of a coming tragedy. Besides, a story without some conflict makes it look like the hero got off too easy.

Date: 2001-09-27 10:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sida-al-hurra.livejournal.com
I gave that book to my sweetheart about three weeks ago. I love it.

Re:

Date: 2001-09-27 10:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
Beauty! :)

Date: 2001-09-27 10:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sida-al-hurra.livejournal.com
BTW, you and I were "subjected" to all that when we were children and look how great we turned out!

Date: 2001-09-27 10:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] saerlaithe.livejournal.com
I loved that story as a kid! Those are the stories that leave you feeling fulfilled. If I ever have children, I plan on telling them the fairie tales and stories as I was told, not some frumped up version. :}

Re:

Date: 2001-09-27 10:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
Dern tootin!

I'm totally with you on that!

Date: 2001-09-27 11:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jennylee.livejournal.com
That's a beautiful story, I loved it when I was young. The Last Unicorn was another one... actually an incredibly sad story all round, but definitely among my favourites. I still have the book and read it from time to time.

Re:

Date: 2001-09-27 11:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
Oh, The Last Unicorn is very sad, but also very beautiful, too, I agree.



From: [identity profile] argumentplease.livejournal.com
Children are citizens of the world, too... they know that there is loss, and misery, and pain. Many of them have already seen much in their short lives. I think "la di da, everything's great" books and TV shows are insulting to them. They need characters and situations they can identify with. It's therapeutic.

It's pretty easy to tell when something is not therapeutic or helpful to a particular child... I think it's about knowing individual children and knowing what they can handle. If they're not enjoying it, or if something about it disturbs them, it's an opportunity for discussion. They can figure out what about it is scary or upsetting, and that's an important insight into why THEY are scared and upset.
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
A totally agree with what you said there. you hit it *right* on the money.
(deleted comment)

Re: Kids These Days

Date: 2001-09-27 11:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
hard to say... he had a really bad reaction though. I told him tears were cleansing, and he countered with "so is ajax, but I wouldn't force it on kids"...

I think his troubles run deeper.

Date: 2001-09-27 11:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] moonmama.livejournal.com
Some of my favorite stories/books are the ones that have made me cry. I'll read, cry, then go back to do it all over again. Oh yes, The Velveteen Rabbit is the type of story I want Cory and Lukey to have.
Ooh and a side note, after reading The Velveteen Rabbit I wanted a velveteen rabbit of my own.

Re:

Date: 2001-09-27 11:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
:)

I seem to recall when I was working at the bookstory that they had a book & rabbit set... very lovely.

Date: 2001-09-27 11:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] satyrich.livejournal.com
The Giving Tree and Hope for the Flowers are both great, too.

Re:

Date: 2001-09-27 11:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
oh, the giving tree is something that anyone can benefit from!

I've never read hope for flowers.

Date: 2001-09-27 11:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] filthymonkey.livejournal.com
I'm in complete agreement with you...

Re:

Date: 2001-09-27 11:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
and you're a parent! more power to you. :)

Date: 2001-09-27 11:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] filthymonkey.livejournal.com
Bottom line, people like that scare me, the ones who just. don't. get it. They breed whole other generations of empty people who don't understand it. damn it.

Re:

Date: 2001-09-27 11:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
Well, that is a shame... but the bigger shame is when they try to render other kide into the same mold.

Date: 2001-09-27 11:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] artemii.livejournal.com
Besides, a story without some conflict makes it look like the hero got off too easy.

not to mention that that's not life -- and that if one gives their kids the impression that it's all flowers and sunshine or all hurricanes and mud, the kid is going to be skewed too much in one direction and have a harder time seeing the whole of life.

Date: 2001-09-27 12:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] artemii.livejournal.com
oh, and hope for the flowers is an awesome longer story about a caterpillar trying to find its place in the world--i agree that it's great. :)

Re:

Date: 2001-09-27 02:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
that's the second reccomendation I've gotten for that... I'll have to look into it!

Date: 2001-09-27 03:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] artemii.livejournal.com
yeah, i saw the poster above recommend it, so i was echoing them :) it's a very inspiring little book.

of course, since i love butterflies i'm biased :)

Date: 2001-09-27 12:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] juliabee.livejournal.com
I didn't read the story as a child, but ran across the story in a bookstore about 5 years ago, adored it and snapped up a copy of the book for myself. :-) My favorite part of the book:


"It doesn't happen all at once," said the Skin Horse. "You become. It takes a long time. That's why it doesn't happen often to people who break easily, or have sharp edges, or who have to be carefully kept. Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in your joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand."


I used to have that up on my old webpage for all the people on the majordomo mailing list i ran. Why? Because of the looks and comments my members would get when they explained to others that they make teddy bears.

some people are just too adult for their own good. ;)

Re:

Date: 2001-09-27 01:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
you know, it's that very quote I posted yesterday (trimmed a bit) that started the whole conversation.

Date: 2001-09-27 02:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] juliabee.livejournal.com
I saw it last night..but i was too sleepy to post then..just catchin' up. :)

Re:

Date: 2001-09-27 02:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
hee hee. :)

Date: 2001-09-27 01:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kidalicious.livejournal.com
That was one of my favorite stories as a child and one I will definately be buying for this munchkin - I think it teaches really valuable lessons about not judging people by what they look like. We have a parent at work who doesn't want her child ever to read traditional fairy tales or stories where her child may be frightened - so no Snow White, or Cinderella or the like - which I think is really sad. Fairy tales gove a child a chance to think over in there own mind - what would I do if... and come to the conclusion that they could cope - just like the people in the stories - and affirms to kids who don't have the easiest time of it that others have beeen in the same situation or worse and survived.

Some of the other books I love but that made - and still make me cry, and that my child will have - are The Little Prince, and The Iron Giant. Both great stories about love and sacrifice. I think it sad that who ever you were talking to can't see the beauty and truth in the story, and why those things are necessary to a childs life.

Re:

Date: 2001-09-27 02:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
I agree... fortunately, he was lamenting the fact that his nephew was reading it... so the parents are getting the kids good stuff.

Date: 2001-09-27 01:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] satyrich.livejournal.com
It just occurred to me--"Pinocchio" was supposed to have been the inspiration for Kubrick/Spielberg's "A.I." film, but I see just as many parallels in The Velveteen Rabbit....

Re:

Date: 2001-09-27 02:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
maybe more.

Date: 2001-09-27 04:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] deunsander.livejournal.com
I glean a lot of satisfaction from occasionally reading over old faerie tales. There's
a great deal to be gained for all ages. More importantly these fables explain
rather plainly that one should be in touch with their emotions and that there is always
hope regardless of how grim things are. I like the Velveteen Rabbit because it also conveys
the concept of perspective. Specifically, "Things never are as bad as they seem."
and "Never give up on yourself." I like to think it's stories like these that help kids learn
to appreciate themselves and each other.

In otherword, I totally agree with you.

Thanks for posting the story up on your LJ. It really is a lovely story.

Re:

Date: 2001-09-27 04:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
it's a lot better when taken outside of the synopsis. :)

thanks for the comment!

Date: 2001-09-27 04:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] plhs.livejournal.com
That was the first book I ever bought for my three(almost four)year-old son. He loves that book so hard that after the tape on the binding gives way one more time, we'll have to buy a new copy. I think that if a child instinctually loves a book like that, there can't be anything wrong with it. I think that it only adds to the wonder and curiosity that he naturally feels.

Re:

Date: 2001-09-27 05:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
you know I'm beginning to wonder more and more what serious problem the other guy had with it...

a different take...

Date: 2001-09-27 11:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lalenalefay.livejournal.com
after i heard that story, i became terrified that some grownup was going to take my stuffed animals and throw them in the trash, and it would be all my fault because i had gotten germs on them.

The part about the rabbit becoming real seemed to me like one of those things adults tell children to shelter them from the cruelty of life. "Don't worry, they only make bacon out of pigs that died of old age." I was like, you expect me to believe that the stuffed rabbit they had to throw away just hopped off happily ever after? Don't you think us kids will figure it out? Duh!

Re: a different take...

Date: 2001-09-28 06:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
Yup, of course they will. I think that was to blunt it for the littler kiddies.

Date: 2001-09-27 11:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] burgundy.livejournal.com
I don't remember thinking the story was sad... certainly the part where he gets taken away is unhappy, but the book itself didn't leave me with a sense of sadness.

Same with the Last Unicorn (though I didn't read it till I was older) - some parts of it are sad, but the feeling I'm left with is one of incredible beauty, tinged with slight melancholy. One of my friends thought the book was depressing - I was totally surprised. It had never occurred to me that it might have that effect.

I don't think kids like shiny happy stuff so much. They need some of the darker things, because it helps them make sense of the world. They know everything's not great. Does anyone believe that small children are happy all the time? They get sad, and scared, and angry, and sometimes they don't know how to deal with it. Think how scary the world must seem when you don't understand most of what's going on.

Some of my stuffed animals are real. I've loved them hard, and for a long time, and they've gotten really shabby, but that just makes them better. I can't imagine ever getting rid of them.

Re:

Date: 2001-09-28 06:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottobear.livejournal.com
I think kids like a good mix.... (heck... the love that irritating barney-stuff, too)

I'm glad you've loved them to reality. :)

Date: 2001-09-28 12:43 pm (UTC)
ext_4917: (Default)
From: [identity profile] hobbitblue.livejournal.com
That's not one I've read but most of the books I loved most as a child (come to think of it, my current faves as an adult too) were/are the ones that made me cry but had a good part too.. Loved The Little Princess and that has some very sad parts in. Wrapping kids in lots of soft stuff doesn't allow them to develop reactions to the real world - how can they learn to relate to, say, the death of a grandparent or even a pet, if they've never even had bad things happen in books or films they've been exposed to.

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