thoughts about gaming
Aug. 8th, 2001 12:03 amThere are some things I *do not* miss about gaming.
Gamers, as a whole, can be a loathsome lot. (Much like the rest of humanity, you might say....if you're a cynic...) First off, I'm not a 'serious' gamer. I see it as an excuse to get together with folks of a like mind, and over junk food and good times, tell a good story, and maybe stage a little combat on a hex-map, involving miniatures and a nifty prop or two. I can comfortably skip a week of gaming, and go to a movie, play cards or do some other social thing instead. I'm not hard-core.
That said, let me break down 'the gamers that bug me'.
1. They wrecked Monty Python for me. (And almost, the princess bride) Pure and simple. I'd never seen holy grail. I'd heard every pesky, probably originally witty line of the film a dozen dozen (that's 144 for you counting at home. a gross) times before ever seeing it on film. the result? Something that's supposedly very funny is reflected on by me as passable, but no great shakes. Honestly, I think Life of Brian is a far better film.
2. There's no question that there's a sort of "dork aura" that surrounds some gamers and turns them into spasming little social retards. We've all had the occasional discussion about why this is, exactly, and what causes it. I don't think you can fully codify it, though. It's more like there's a whole bunch of different personality traits, no single one of which is necessarily offensive on its own, but in certain combinations they cause this regression into infantilism.
3. Personal hygiene. Bathe Regularly, please?
Memories of con folk -
I run into my first Smelly in the dealers' room today. He lumbers around the corner as I'm passing the WotC castle - morbidly obese, covered with a slick of sweat, an expression on his face like he's just suffered a massive head injury and is now watching the great unknown come to him out of the lighted tunnel. One second after I pass him, his wake hits me, and I literally retch. Right there in the middle of a crowd of people, I lean against the wall and make a horrible face. It was embarrassing but completely unintentional - I just couldn't help it.
Poor hygiene is the perennial Con joke, of course - How do you get a bunch of gamers to agree on something? Threaten them with soap. But actually I've been pleasantly surprised at the nonodorous nature of the crowds. This guy made up for all I'd missed. Someone like that can't be explained away by mere social ineptitude; I would not be surprised to learn that Mr. Stinky is to some degree or another mentally ill. You just can't get like that without some fundamental disconnect between yourself and the rest of the world. I've hung out with homeless people who smelled better than that.
I've gamed with some folk that really had a sickening funk about them. it was so bad, I used it as a valid reason to quit, and later, to check to see if I was to enter a new group... If I can smell a person's reek, I'd just as soon go home and read a nice book inside my own fragrance, thanks.
4. Rules Lawyers. I don't mean people who can quote rules from the air, or take time to look 'em up. Those folks are generally very helpful. I'm referring to folks that dance and debate around a rule-set to make an event go their way. (and usually go another way in a similar situation for the enemy). That's not fun, that's just annoying.
5. Folks who take the whole thing Waaaaay too seriously. I've had players in my group *Flip out*upon finding out that someone else's character had died.
Ok, Time out. another description for Role-playing games is 'cooperative storytelling'. It's a story. That's it. I can understand enjoying a role... but come on. Do you threaten breakdown when a character in your favorite book dies? It's a valid plot point... see Romeo & juliet, or countless other tales of folks dying heroically or romantically. This is a game. The weirdest thing to me about this is they often also fall into a very strong reality haze. see the following.
6. (almost 5b) Folks who Identify maybe a little *too* much with the role. Ok, Now some folks are method actors. I'm not. These are the folks that allow personal reality to slip focus, to varying degrees of badness.
Example - If you're a graceless, nonathletic fumblethumbs afraid of butterflies... (gosh, I'm glad she doesn't read this journal), it's perfectly natural to want to play a pantherlike, limber, master thief and assassin (as another side note... why do girls *love* to play master thieves and assassins so much? Dang!) Coming to the game dressed as the part... well, for me, since it's not a larp, I think it's interesting, but a little weird. Same person plays the same sort of character for a long time in assorted games....and starts buying her own presskit. No... I'm sorry, young lady. (At the time, I think she was 33? Well older than my 27) . You're not a ninja/master of sorcery/acrobat. you play one in a game. Bragging that you can fade into another reality space doesn't make you cool... it makes you at the least... Comical. at the worst, delusional.
even my buddy Dan is not exempt from this... although I prefer to hope that he did it as a joke rather than something else... Crossing the street holding his arms up to stop cars, and exclaiming "Nothing an stop MAN OF IRON!!!" Always gave me the heebie-geebies. I rarely chastised him for it at the time, because the once or twice that I did seemed to amuse him, and egg him on more. (I know he reads my journal here sometimes...I wonder what he'll say to me about my bringing it up )
What do you folks think? What do you especially like/dislike about gaming? Can someone explain to me why the reality and socially impaired gravitate to the hobby, and cause so much bad press and bad playtime for the rest of us?
Gamers, as a whole, can be a loathsome lot. (Much like the rest of humanity, you might say....if you're a cynic...) First off, I'm not a 'serious' gamer. I see it as an excuse to get together with folks of a like mind, and over junk food and good times, tell a good story, and maybe stage a little combat on a hex-map, involving miniatures and a nifty prop or two. I can comfortably skip a week of gaming, and go to a movie, play cards or do some other social thing instead. I'm not hard-core.
That said, let me break down 'the gamers that bug me'.
1. They wrecked Monty Python for me. (And almost, the princess bride) Pure and simple. I'd never seen holy grail. I'd heard every pesky, probably originally witty line of the film a dozen dozen (that's 144 for you counting at home. a gross) times before ever seeing it on film. the result? Something that's supposedly very funny is reflected on by me as passable, but no great shakes. Honestly, I think Life of Brian is a far better film.
2. There's no question that there's a sort of "dork aura" that surrounds some gamers and turns them into spasming little social retards. We've all had the occasional discussion about why this is, exactly, and what causes it. I don't think you can fully codify it, though. It's more like there's a whole bunch of different personality traits, no single one of which is necessarily offensive on its own, but in certain combinations they cause this regression into infantilism.
3. Personal hygiene. Bathe Regularly, please?
Memories of con folk -
I run into my first Smelly in the dealers' room today. He lumbers around the corner as I'm passing the WotC castle - morbidly obese, covered with a slick of sweat, an expression on his face like he's just suffered a massive head injury and is now watching the great unknown come to him out of the lighted tunnel. One second after I pass him, his wake hits me, and I literally retch. Right there in the middle of a crowd of people, I lean against the wall and make a horrible face. It was embarrassing but completely unintentional - I just couldn't help it.
Poor hygiene is the perennial Con joke, of course - How do you get a bunch of gamers to agree on something? Threaten them with soap. But actually I've been pleasantly surprised at the nonodorous nature of the crowds. This guy made up for all I'd missed. Someone like that can't be explained away by mere social ineptitude; I would not be surprised to learn that Mr. Stinky is to some degree or another mentally ill. You just can't get like that without some fundamental disconnect between yourself and the rest of the world. I've hung out with homeless people who smelled better than that.
I've gamed with some folk that really had a sickening funk about them. it was so bad, I used it as a valid reason to quit, and later, to check to see if I was to enter a new group... If I can smell a person's reek, I'd just as soon go home and read a nice book inside my own fragrance, thanks.
4. Rules Lawyers. I don't mean people who can quote rules from the air, or take time to look 'em up. Those folks are generally very helpful. I'm referring to folks that dance and debate around a rule-set to make an event go their way. (and usually go another way in a similar situation for the enemy). That's not fun, that's just annoying.
5. Folks who take the whole thing Waaaaay too seriously. I've had players in my group *Flip out*upon finding out that someone else's character had died.
Ok, Time out. another description for Role-playing games is 'cooperative storytelling'. It's a story. That's it. I can understand enjoying a role... but come on. Do you threaten breakdown when a character in your favorite book dies? It's a valid plot point... see Romeo & juliet, or countless other tales of folks dying heroically or romantically. This is a game. The weirdest thing to me about this is they often also fall into a very strong reality haze. see the following.
6. (almost 5b) Folks who Identify maybe a little *too* much with the role. Ok, Now some folks are method actors. I'm not. These are the folks that allow personal reality to slip focus, to varying degrees of badness.
Example - If you're a graceless, nonathletic fumblethumbs afraid of butterflies... (gosh, I'm glad she doesn't read this journal), it's perfectly natural to want to play a pantherlike, limber, master thief and assassin (as another side note... why do girls *love* to play master thieves and assassins so much? Dang!) Coming to the game dressed as the part... well, for me, since it's not a larp, I think it's interesting, but a little weird. Same person plays the same sort of character for a long time in assorted games....and starts buying her own presskit. No... I'm sorry, young lady. (At the time, I think she was 33? Well older than my 27) . You're not a ninja/master of sorcery/acrobat. you play one in a game. Bragging that you can fade into another reality space doesn't make you cool... it makes you at the least... Comical. at the worst, delusional.
even my buddy Dan is not exempt from this... although I prefer to hope that he did it as a joke rather than something else... Crossing the street holding his arms up to stop cars, and exclaiming "Nothing an stop MAN OF IRON!!!" Always gave me the heebie-geebies. I rarely chastised him for it at the time, because the once or twice that I did seemed to amuse him, and egg him on more. (I know he reads my journal here sometimes...I wonder what he'll say to me about my bringing it up )
What do you folks think? What do you especially like/dislike about gaming? Can someone explain to me why the reality and socially impaired gravitate to the hobby, and cause so much bad press and bad playtime for the rest of us?
no subject
Date: 2001-08-07 09:10 pm (UTC)Re:
Date: 2001-08-07 09:14 pm (UTC)$10 a month is a jim-dandy price for such an immersive, complete game. I especially get wigged out by the telephone messages. scrambled voices talking about murder and arson are a highly entertaining thing to find on your voicemail.
Re:
Date: 2001-08-07 09:16 pm (UTC)Re:
Date: 2001-08-07 09:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-08-07 09:29 pm (UTC)And I agree, there are quite a few people who loose such a sense of reality that they forget to practice proper hygiene. It fairly reeked in the coffee house the nights that games were played to the point that other regulars would go somewhere else for the evening.
*shudders at memory*
added, from roleplayers community.
Date: 2001-08-07 09:38 pm (UTC)from blackmanxy -
Way to play up the stereotypes, Scott. Here's my counter. I know a lot of gamers. A lot. Everyone from die hard wargamers, to gothy Vampire players, hacknslashing D&D players, and a few LARPers who are good actors. The whole gamut. I've been to my share of cons, and mingled in circles of people that I'd never game with. Yes, the people you mention do exist. But they are the minority.
Gamers, on the whole, are about the nicest, most honest, and frequently smartest... subculture, you could say, of people that I've met. Yeah, we have our idiosyncrasies. Yeah, quite a few of us are socially "off." But most of us bathe daily, most of us aren't spastic little freaks who take the game too seriously, and most of us don't rules-lawyer. Kindly keep the sweeping generalizations to yourself.
Honestly, a rant like this doesn't surprise me (though posting it in this community mystifies me), but it does disappoint me.
from monkleigh -
1. They wrecked Monty Python for me. (And almost, the princess bride) Pure and simple. I'd never seen holy grail. I'd heard ever pesky, probably originally witty line of the film a dozen dozen (that's 144 for you counting at home. a gross) times before ever seeing it on film. the result? Something that's supposedly very funny is reflected on by me as passable, but no great shakes. Honestly, I think Life of Brian is a far better film.
You know the score, man. What with an entire group of kids who have been told all their lives that they're smart, that they should take ot dorky things, these kids have beat the hell out of Monty Python. And they've only seen The Holy Grail. I guess since the content of the movie is fairly relevant to DnD, what with coming across, uh, people with armor, and uh, priests or something...
So yeah, RPGs + Monty Python = No good.
from moseferatu
Hey, yeah. You know what else? All white people are part of a big conspiracy to keep minorities down. All black people are criminals. All Hispanics are here illegally. All Jews are greedy bankers. All homosexuals are promiscuous.
(For those who couldn't tell, the above is all sarcasm.)
Yes, the fanatic/smelly/dorky gamer exists. In my role-playing experience--and I've been doing this since 1984--they make up a tiny minority of gamers. Any particular reason you felt the need to come into this community and insult the rest of us based on a false stereotype?
I really expected better of you, Scott.
now, my commentary on that.
Date: 2001-08-07 09:50 pm (UTC)Can someone explain to me why the reality and socially impaired gravitate to the hobby, and cause so much bad press and bad playtime for the rest of us?
I'm no newbie to gaming either...I've been at it since '79 or so. and I agree with much of mousferatu's statement. There are sane, and stable gamers out there. in my time, I'd say that only perhaps one in seven fall into my rant above. a minority, yes, but not a tiny minority, as far as I'm concerned.
I totally agree with blackmanxy, though. I didn't mean to, but I did overgeneralise. for that, I apologise.
no subject
Date: 2001-08-07 09:52 pm (UTC)you forgot the worst thing about gamers.....They're mating habits...which are utterly gross, innept, and frankly, painful to watch. There are WAY too many male gamers for way too many female gamers.
Here's my beleif- it's ok to game.
its ok to watch anime.
it's ok to read comics.
it's ok to do any two of the above activities.
but throw in the third, you're asking for trouble.
I will say this though....I've met some hippiefolk that can definately make a gamer put up a good run for thier money in the hygene department. so i suppose I should shut up about them. the whole pot and kettle and things
Re:
Date: 2001-08-07 09:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-08-07 09:57 pm (UTC)i noticed several of the things that you mentioned, though the same could be applied to any group of geeky/dorky/nerdy boys... bad hygiene, quoting the same movies over and over, fanatical to the point of violence about whatever it is that they're into... in the case of my school after games were banned, it was computers. hardware, os, hacking, and computer games like myst, quake and duke nukem. there weren't many girls involved in these groups, though the ones that were were really irritating. i tried gaming a few times, but there were enough rules lawyers and fanitics that it really didn't do anything for me. i didn't enjoy the game because my character was killed pretty quickly for no reason, and the gm allowed it because i was a new girl. it was irritating, so i never went back.
*shrug*
Re:
Date: 2001-08-07 10:01 pm (UTC)I am sorry that you were turned off by the group you were in.. there are good folks too. unfortunately, I don't think you're alone in your experiance.
so badly...
Are there 'normal' gamers? Of course, as you mentioned. But anyway, i hope my theory answers your question somehow.
Re: so badly...
Date: 2001-08-07 11:09 pm (UTC)I reread my post, and I don't think it's as harsh as a few of the folks in the RP community have made it out to be...I think it could be more 'not all, but some' pointed, though.
Re: so badly...
Date: 2001-08-08 01:19 am (UTC)Re: so badly...
Date: 2001-08-08 07:20 am (UTC)Re: so badly...
Date: 2001-08-08 10:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-08-07 11:00 pm (UTC)of course that's sad, because I know that some perfectly nice folk play -- I've just never met them in person.
Re:
Date: 2001-08-07 11:03 pm (UTC)Re:
Date: 2001-08-19 04:46 pm (UTC)Hmmmm....
Date: 2001-08-07 11:07 pm (UTC)Moved on to AD&D 1st edition and enjoyed it for a bit with a rahter small group of friends. However the group kept getting larger, and soon there were so many new people coming in with so many rule books that we got to a point where we were making sure our guys didnt trip, stumble, and fall when they were urinating. That got old quick.
I played RIFTS for quite awhile after that.
My friends and I always came up with new characters before evey single sit dwn session and by the time we left all of us were dead and lovin it. Really high body counts in those games, but thats the way we liked it.
Then I got into TOON and GURPS(Still have a few rule books of both around here somewhere)
But I got bored that nobody died much in GURPS or at all in TOON.
Then I went to Vampire: the Masquerade.
That what REALLY killed it for me.
It started off with me, my brother Ray, and a few friends lounging around 2 or 3 times a month having fun donig table top.
It ended up with us larping every Thursday at this floor a couple college students rented out in a small mall every week, and my watching my friends slowly loose thier grips on the realities o who they really were and start taking on the behavioral traits of thier gaming characters. Watching them do that really showed me how easy it is for some people to slip between the cracks. Hell a few of my buds tried to bite me IRL saying that they needed to drain me and all this other wacko stuff.
I broke contact with EVERYBODY in the groups except for my brother after the 3rd time that happened.
I dont mind doing a little table top, dice rolling hack & slash fest from time to time, but Im never gonna get all hard core with RPGs again, unless of course they're video game RPGs. Those just flatly rock.
Re: Hmmmm....
Date: 2001-08-07 11:43 pm (UTC):)
no subject
Date: 2001-08-07 11:49 pm (UTC)I never understood how people could goto blows over the stuf that goes on in an RPG, because in th end its all a game, and its meant to be an enjoyable experience for all involved.
Attack of the Clowns
Date: 2001-08-08 01:12 am (UTC)Case in point: my friend loved to make replicas of guns from SF shows and movies. They were beautiful. My girlfriend used to slink around in a leotard, an ammo belt, and a bunch of the guns on her. She looked great, and we looked like a pack of geeky mercenaries, great fun.
Then in came the jerks. First there was the guy who asked to look at my friend's Colonial Blaster replica. Five seconds later, he ran out of the building, into the middle of the road, pointed it at an oncoming car, and fired the camera flash built into it.
It was a police car...
For the next 45 minutes, we got to hear the nice officer lecture him on how close he came to dying. I think it's a pity he lived sometimes. This would have been Darwin in action. But then the gun would have been confiscated as evidence. We got it back, just barely, when the cop found out the idiot had effectively stolen it from us.
Then there was the guy who just decided it would be cool to chase uninvolved hotel guests while in full battle armor. Eventually, they kicked him out of the hotel. But idiots like this led to all the silly rules about peace-bonding weapons, and sometimes not allowing them at all.
Less harmful, but equally annoying was the psycho boy who dressed 24/7 in his Star Trek II uniform, and walked the streets of my home town. One day, when I was at a con in my own Star Trek II uniform, he came up to me and started a "serious" discussion about how to eject the Klingons from Starfleet before it was too late. Eventually, I told him I was from the wrong time period, and that there were regulations about tampering with the future. He gave me a puzzled look, but walked away. My friends lost it though.
Focusing on how these people destroyed fandom and gaming is kind of counterproductive though. They exist, they smell, they have no discernable talents other than acting offensively, and they validate every stereotype known to mankind.
But they aren't the majority. Most of us are just happy-go-lucky borderline dangerous sociopathic loners. We're great at parties. We know all sorts of trivia. And you should hear the weird noises we can make on request. Oh yeah, we bathe too.
Re: Attack of the Clowns
Date: 2001-08-08 07:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-08-08 08:01 am (UTC)Plus, there would be people who would just run scripts and sit in the game 24 hours per day. I can understand running scripts every once in a while, but I think these people's only interest was to be better than everyone else, not to enjoy the game and some friendly competition. Oh well...to each their own, I suppose. :) Sorry to take up so much space! :)
Re:
Date: 2001-08-08 08:07 am (UTC)I played in muds briefly, but it didn't really tickle my fancy.
Reflections on this post
Date: 2001-08-08 08:54 am (UTC)Yes, there are fanboys and stinkbombs and hyperactive social misfits in the cons. Yes their are the deluded, the oblivious and the petty among the ranks as well. But it's a glorious and diverse culture, with roots in a million different walks of life. Hell, watch the movie Trekkies and you see some TRULY terrifying people, but they almost look glorious at times.
For the record, I've done it all. I read comics, play games, AND watch anime. I've run 100 person VLARPs and been proud with the results. I've dressed in costumes and gotten mad when people jinxed my dice. I've written tournament modules and toughed it out in the Star Fleet Battles crowd. And while I love the idea that people think I'm a geek sometimes, I think there are very few people who could say I don't have a "real" life or would say my social skills are even slightly damaged. The gaming culture has been good to me, and I have walked out of it blessed and virtually unscathed. And the scary part, is that I'd get back into it in a heartbeat if I could.
So it makes me sad to see all these people talking bad about a creative and intelligent element. I don't judge sports fans by the wackos who paint themselves and wear shorts in 30 degree weather. I don't think soccer huligans are the defining element of a good kiddie fussball game. I enjoyed your rather harmless prod at a few of the sillier sides of a silly society... but the more vehement stereotypes presented by the replies has made me sad... and makes me wish I could show all these people what I've seen and what I've been a part of.
And what I wish I was still a part of...
Re: Reflections on this post
Date: 2001-08-08 10:34 am (UTC)I pulled it out of the roleplayers region, because I didn't want to hurt folks feelings.
no subject
Date: 2001-08-08 10:11 am (UTC)In response to your roleplayer items:
1) Word. To fix the problem in our group of half the geeks overusing NEE!! and "Your father smell's of Eldeberries", we encouraged them to watch the rest of the Python library, including several Flying Circus'. It didn't totally fix the situation, but it gave them a much broader quote range. :)
2) Some people are just retarded, no matter what social situation you put them in. Combine that with a majority of those who game because they don't fit into the vast number of other social gatherings, and you have a recipe for disaster.
3) I don't care what anyone else responding to this post says: some gamers just plain STINK. One of our regular gamers used to show up to a session smelling like a week old salami. Every time we gamed, all of our characters would, at one point during the game, tell the GM that we were hogtying his character and giving him a bath. He eventual took the hint.
4) In our group, rules lawyers were hung by their balls from a tree. In front of the library.
5) My friend Matt used to drink blood to "identify with his earth-mage". We told him if he didn't stop, we were going to kidnap his home beer brewing kit and never give it back. He chose beer.
6) I've been guilty of this one from time to time. Playing a nigh-indestructible Gangrel stunt man with a Stamina of 6 and Fortitude of 5 kinda goes to your head sometimes, y'know?
Thanks for sharing, bud.
Re:
Date: 2001-08-08 01:16 pm (UTC)I agree... I think we'd enjoy a good game session or 12 together. similar enough to have a common goal, different enough to add variety to the mix.
items-
1. What's truly, truly sad...I really like the other Python things, a lot... but... creative thought! :) please!
2. Misfits are usually ok... its the misfits among the misfits that get me.
3. I had to politely, but firmly tell a player that he'd not be welcome unless he bathed immediately before coming over, and in clean clothes. That is something I don't care to repeat.
4. We dealt with rules lawyers with the set of rules... 1-gm has fiat, don't delay him by more than a minute. 2. see rule one, if you have a question.
5. Drinking blood is bad. bleh.
6. just don't try stopping the local amtrak with your face, ok?
no subject
Date: 2005-08-09 12:34 am (UTC)I have to say that I agree with you on most of these comments, and I'm a pretty hard core gamer IMO. There are worse but I don't think I'm that bad.
1. Monty Python. Damn straight. The same goes for damnable Star Wars quotes. It got so bad that I had to actually ban them at my gaming table. Sheesh!
2. Not sure what you mean by "spasming little social retards" but I've known plenty of gamers who seem to lack social skills if thats what you mean. Colin at Gamers refers to them as "people who don't know how to say goodbye."
3. Hygiene. Dear Lord, you have this right on the nail. I'm a big lad and I sweat a lot, but I always carry a can of deoderant in my bag when I go out gaming. And bathing is such a must in any situation.
4. Agreed 100%. You have those who are helpful to a game and then you have the spawn of the devil who just want to make an arse of themselves.
5. Now I take a game seriously but not that bad. I have had players who (for whatever reason) couldn't make a game and then spazed out because someone else played their character.
6. People can take a game out of game, but when thats a humourous thing (such as your Man of Iron reference) then its good in small doses.
no subject
Date: 2005-08-09 02:05 am (UTC)"spasming little social retards" are those people that simply cannot function in public properly at all.