8595 - a quickie with a piccie.

[scottobear]

I was very tired last night... working AV/Tech duty for work.. took care of sound system and led projector. during a moment of sillies, I realized that I could probably stitch a few pics together.. over time.. .I see two instances of george - the real photographer, and rhode island, who ducked out midway through.)

The event had only a few attendees - I imagine that the next one will be more populated, because of the forensic aspect of the talk.

I think last night's speaker (warning, her story can be distressing to folks concerned about violence against women) was quite skilled. It can be quite jarring to see someone good at communications and public speaking, especially if it's been a while since the last one. She was very eloquent, but down-to-earth heartfelt, and positive. She got the message of victim's rights across in an effective manner.

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Lost city 'could rewrite history'

The remains of what has been described as a huge lost city may force historians and archaeologists to radically reconsider their view of ancient human history.

Marine scientists say archaeological remains discovered 36 meters (120 feet) underwater in the Gulf of Cambay off the western coast of India could be over 9,000 years old.

The vast city - which is five miles long and two miles wide - is believed to predate the oldest known remains in the subcontinent by more than 5,000 years.

The site was discovered by chance last year by oceanographers from India's National Institute of Ocean Technology conducting a survey of pollution.

Using sidescan sonar - which sends a beam of sound waves down to the bottom of the ocean they identified huge geometrical structures at a depth of 120ft.

Debris recovered from the site - including construction material, pottery, sections of walls, beads, sculpture and human bones and teeth has been carbon dated and found to be nearly 9,500 years old.

The city is believed to be even older than the ancient Harappan civilization, which dates back around 4,000 years.

Marine archaeologists have used a technique known as sub-bottom profiling to show that the buildings remains stand on enormous foundations.


The whole model of the origins of civilization will have to be remade from scratch

Author and film-maker Graham Hancock - who has written extensively on the uncovering of ancient civilisations - told BBC News Online that the evidence was compelling:

"The [oceanographers] found that they were dealing with two large blocks of apparently man made structures.

"Cities on this scale are not known in the archaeological record until roughly 4,500 years ago when the first big cities begin to appear in Mesopotamia.

"Nothing else on the scale of the underwater cities of Cambay is known. The first cities of the historical period are as far away from these cities as we are today from the pyramids of Egypt," he said.

Chronological problem

This, Mr Hancock told BBC News Online, could have massive repercussions for our view of the ancient world.

"There's a huge chronological problem in this discovery. It means that the whole model of the origins of civilisation with which archaeologists have been working will have to be remade from scratch," he said.

However, archaeologist Justin Morris from the British Museum said more work would need to be undertaken before the site could be categorically said to belong to a 9,000 year old civilization.

"Culturally speaking, in that part of the world there were no civilizations prior to about 2,500 BC. What's happening before then mainly consisted of small, village settlements," he told BBC News Online.

Dr Morris added that artifacts from the site would need to be very carefully analysed, and pointed out that the C14 carbon dating process is not without its error margins.

It is believed that the area was submerged as ice caps melted at the end of the last ice age 9-10,000 years ago

Although the first signs of a significant find came eight months ago, exploring the area has been extremely difficult because the remains lie in highly treacherous waters, with strong currents and rip tides.

The Indian Minister for Human Resources and ocean development said a group had been formed to oversee further studies in the area.

"We have to find out what happened then ... where and how this civilization vanished," he said.

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1 year ago - amusement park pics, halloween card, paper batmobile, hello, fl deadly force law, lost on itunes

2 years ago - bro drama, holidays, frontiers, world atlas

3 years ago - big brain breaks, hunters / harvest moon

4 years ago - Newt tuckered, Mage knight, independent woman

5 years ago - mulct, poo-spray, error handling

6 years ago - syndicate wars, Doom Patrol, ups and downs, suffixes, sw quiz



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Comments

[weezeroni.livejournal.com]

What a brave and determined woman. "The insurance company where she worked cleared her desk even before she left the hospital." Lord...

[scottobear.livejournal.com]

She really is an amazing lady. I'm really impressed by her ability to take something awful and make it a force to help others.

[blond-not-blind.livejournal.com]

C14 carbon dating process is not without its error margins

Historians just HATE to be wrong don't they? All of the sudden carbon dating (which has been used for how long?) will be deemed unreliable just so they can try to stick to all previous threories about past civilization. Sheesh.

[scottobear.livejournal.com]

Well, i'm not sure about that, but c14 has been under fire for about 10 years now from multiple sources. (Of course, the biggest has been with creationist offshoots trying to prove nothing is more than 7000 years old)

[blackhellkat.livejournal.com]

Oh Carbon dating has always had an error margin of plus/minus 100 years (maybe its 50 my brain has forgotten so much of my Archaeological training now). Its just that when you are dealing with civilizations that are in THOUSANDS of years an error of a coupla hundred years really doesn't matter.
The other reason carbon datig is tricky is that usually you are analyzing something like wood or charcoal and the samples can be tainted pretty easily. I remember we had to very carefully collect charcoal samples when I was digging in IL and specially wrap them and put them aside from other artifacts so they couldn't be tainted. The other problem is that you are identifying only the life span of the organic substance---usually the "tree" used in building or making a fire. That wouldn't necessarily give an indication of the age of the city if aged timber was used.

That being said---yeah archaeologist LOVE LOVE LOVE to disprove each others theories. Lot sof people think archaeology is an exact science--it isn't and the field is just full of people who are still chewing over old theories trying to disprove them. I know one guy who spent 40 YEARS trying to build a machine that he thought prehistoric people might have used to make giant stone blades only to ultimately find that he was wrong about that theory and that in the end no one gave 2 blue hoots. So um...heh more than you wanted to know...but yeah historians and archaeologist generally DO hate to be wrong :D

[scottobear.livejournal.com]

I want a stone-age flint-blade sharpener!!

I love my little indiana jonesette!

[blackhellkat.livejournal.com]

You will OWN a stone age tool kit in about 2 weeks bub *grin* All you have to do is look in the kitchen cabinets--its there!

Your Indy loves you.

[graypumpkin.livejournal.com]

Sharon D'Eusanio spoke at our high school back when I was senior, 81-82, her story was one that has stayed with me all these years.

[scottobear.livejournal.com]

She's been a Fort Lauderdale fixture for a long time.. I've seen her name come up here and again as the Deputy Director for the Division of Victim Services and Criminal Justice Programs for the Office of the Florida Attorney General, but that was the first time I'd heard her speak. She's a very skilled orator.

[graypumpkin.livejournal.com]

Intresting article about the lost city, I love stuff like that, intrested to see if it indeed turns out to be that old.

[scottobear.livejournal.com]

I have to admit, I like it when something shows up to turn everything on its ear. :D

[blackhellkat.livejournal.com]

tada

[scottobear.livejournal.com]

you're dang good at that! :D

[blackhellkat.livejournal.com]

Pye has discovered the joy of mer-ing at squirrels--oh boy! This morning he has been wndow hopping as a squirrel jumps around the tree outside taunting him.

[scottobear.livejournal.com]

It is fun!

MER! Muh!

[pilarcruz.livejournal.com]

In that picture, you look like one of my dad's law partners.

[scottobear.livejournal.com]

I was running on four kinds of empty... I feel sorry for the law partner guy!

[silentyrs.livejournal.com]

Ooh wow, I'm really interested to see how this turns out (about the lost city.) Thanks for keeping us all informed ;)

[phillykat.livejournal.com]

You have to admire anyone who stands in front of a crowd to tell their story just to educate others.

Wow to the lost city. I can't wait to find out more. I'm glad it isn't Egyptian because Dr. Hawass would have his name all over it. He has become my most disliked archeaologist.